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Bitcomet versions 0.62 through 0.70 contain a bug


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#1 Dr. WTF

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 09:53 PM

I'm using Bitcomet version 0.70 (current stable release) and have also tried versions down to 0.62 and have found that they all contain the same bug, I am using windows XP sp2 if that helps.

To replicate the bug, open a torrent and begin downloading. Select the torrent and click the preview button. When the "Task Preview..." window comes up select a file to preview, and click the "Preview" button. This is where the bug shows, when the next window opens an obnoxious, unwanted ad appears (from my experience all the ads are created in Flash). This is clearly a bug because the Bitcomet website states that the client is "Clean and free, without any adware or spyware." Something is clearly wrong here. Either the website needs to be updated or the current stable release of the client sould have this bug fixed. I'm personally hoping for the latter.

#2 bitdave

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 10:17 PM

Look in
C:\Program Files\BitComet\fav

The "ads"(if you can even call them ads) are harmless but you can remove the folder if you want
Also you can edit the .xml fav file for your language to set up bitcomet's favorites how you want

If you want to falsely call these ads then every single software in existence has adware too.
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then you should go back to v0.70.
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#3 Dr. WTF

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 11:31 PM

Quote

The "ads"(if you can even call them ads) are harmless but you can remove the folder if you want
Also you can edit the .xml fav file for your language to set up bitcomet's favorites how you want
I didn't say the ads weren't harmless, but the fact that they are there at all makes the statement claiming it is "Clean and free, without any adware or spyware." false, since the presence of any ads makes BitComet adware. Even if they are easily disabled they are still indeed there and automatically played without the consent of the user.

So.. is this bug going to be fixed, or is the main website going to change? Or is this issue just going to be ignored and the website will continue spreading misinformation?


Just incase you didn't know the definition, adware is :

Wikipedia said:

..any software package which automatically plays, displays, or downloads advertising material to a computer after the software is installed on it or while the application is being used.
This is clearly what BitComet is doing, even if it is configurable.

#4 The UnUsual Suspect

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 01:41 PM

This can hardly be considered an "Add", as it is a "splash screen" displaying the details for the "free" integrated video player used by Bit Comet.

Adware is when a program displays adds of a commercial nature, not when an integrated application displays its application name and webpage.


This splash screen isn't trying to sell anything, merely showing you what application is displaying your video.


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#5 Imperium

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 03:03 AM

I think the "add" Dr. WTF was refering to was the one only in version .70. There is a picture of this "add" on the wikipedia BitComet article. The "add" that is referred to is only in version .70, and is absent from all other clients. Just trying to figure this whole adware thing out. Posted Image
Recommended BitComet Versions:
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#6 kluelos

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 03:55 AM

View PostDr. WTF, on Dec 10 2006, 05:31 PM, said:

I didn't say the ads weren't harmless, but the fact that they are there at all makes the statement claiming it is "Clean and free, without any adware or spyware." false, since the presence of any ads makes BitComet adware. Even if they are easily disabled they are still indeed there and automatically played without the consent of the user.

You need to work on your interpretations a little. What you are seeing is the logo of the 3rd party display application when it starts up. Nobody, or at least nobody rational, considers this an advertisement. Nobody sane considers that invoking another app with its splash screen, makes the first one "adware". If it is, then every program you've ever used, that has a splash screen, is adware, so the definition loses any meaning.

So no, it's not likely that either the website or the program will be changed to suit such a distorted view of the world.


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#7 springy

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 10:27 AM

Just had a look myself.
I don't think it is adware since it is advertising itself, but I can understand why people say it could be adware, since of the, sorry to say this, the tackiness of the ad.. lol..

But to be honest, it serves no purpose and should be taken out in future version, which I think it is.
Please stick with Version 0.70 for the latest stable bitcomet.
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#8 The UnUsual Suspect

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Posted 11 January 2007 - 07:37 PM

Springy,

I could see your point, but all programs are self promoting in someway or other.

Since bit comet is developed as "freeware", we cannot include commercial applications to enhance our product. I also think we might even be the only Bit Torrent client that has an integrated video player, and is capable of playing partial downloaded files, as well as web browsing, not to mention the new clients video capture and http/ftp download manager.

If we are going to continue to integrate more features, this is unavoidable.

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#9 springy

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 11:58 AM

I see your point Suspect, but usually I would thought that if you do advertise your own program, it will be on the main application since then people will see what new features this new application has, like a little banner in the top corner rotating saying, want to play your video you are downloading?. Something like that so that in a sense it is advertising at the right area and what you want to advertise inside your application.

I don't see the point to advertising something in a component where they already know what the application does already. Like the media player having a link to bit comet. I am sure that people already knows that they are using bitcomet, so bringing it to the front page serves no purpose. But if the advertising was bit comet media player, one will click and will bring you to the information page about the media player on the bit comet site.

Well thats what I think.. lol.. how should I know.. I am only a CompSci student.. lol.. not out there doing stuff yet. :(
Please stick with Version 0.70 for the latest stable bitcomet.
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#10 Dark_Shroud

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 10:26 PM

Most video players are like that though. Windows Media Player, Media Player Classic, Quick Time. These are default splash screens that load if the player isn't told to open a file/link when it's starting up. So in this sense it's not only is it incorrect to label it as adware it's also not fare since this is something so common in the product type that it's almost a standard.
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#11 Dr. WTF

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 01:55 AM

kluelos said:

You need to work on your interpretations a little. What you are seeing is the logo of the 3rd party display application when it starts up. Nobody, or at least nobody rational, considers this an advertisement. Nobody sane considers that invoking another app with its splash screen, makes the first one "adware". If it is, then every program you've ever used, that has a splash screen, is adware, so the definition loses any meaning.

So no, it's not likely that either the website or the program will be changed to suit such a distorted view of the world.

I think we have a misunderstanding. Which site is the 3rd party video player coming from? I'm assuming from leechvideo.com, is this correct? If so, then you are right it wouldn't be considered adware for it to display the below video while loading:

Posted Image


Although this does not explain why it also shows the video below, which has nothing to do with leechvideo.com.

Posted Image

I do not see how you could justify the display of the above as a "splash screen" as it isn't a logo for the flash previewer or bitcomet at all. Nobody, or at least nobody rational, considers this a splash screen. Nobody sane considers that displaying a blatant ad is not adware. If it isn't, then every program you've ever used, that has an advertisement, isn't adware, so the definition loses any meaning.

#12 The UnUsual Suspect

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 05:58 PM

Dr. WTF,

In all the time I have used Bit Comet, I have not seen these screens. If they are in fact part of an official Bit Comet release (not one altered by a third party, or had a so called "patch" applied), then I would assume its the third party application that is displaying the screens you describe.

I will look at the video player in version .70 that you refer to, and see what I can find out.

If it turns out that this third party integrated application is displaying these screens, then perhaps this is why our newer versions now use the new bit comet flv player.

You will also note that Internet Explorer is integrated into Bit Comet, and we all know that adware can easily become attached to Internet Explorer, even if it wasn't included with the download, so keep this in mind regarding this video player.

From reading some of your conversations at wiki, I can see that you are an intelligent person, and I'm sure you can see that Bit Comet itself contains no adds. I'm sure you can also imagine how hard it would be to keep third party applications from being altered (if this is the case).

Also, I would be grateful if you would let us know if you are seeking information to use in wikipedia, rather then seeking opinions of Bit Comets users. This forum is run by users, not developers, and any statements our staff and members make are opinions of users, not developers.

Another member at wikipedia is seeking information too, and since they have asked, I am discussing the subject with the developers, and will make an official reply when ready.

Thank you


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#13 Dr. WTF

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 09:17 PM

Quote

In all the time I have used Bit Comet, I have not seen these screens. If they are in fact part of an official Bit Comet release (not one altered by a third party, or had a so called "patch" applied), then I would assume its the third party application that is displaying the screens you describe.

I will look at the video player in version .70 that you refer to, and see what I can find out.
Thanks, the versions I am talking about were downloaded directly from the BC website:

http://download.bitc...tComet_0.70.zip
http://download.bitc...tComet_0.69.zip
http://download.bitc...tComet_0.68.zip
...through 0.62 ...
http://download.bitc...tComet_0.62.zip

Quote

Also, I would be grateful if you would let us know if you are seeking information to use in wikipedia, rather then seeking opinions of Bit Comets users. This forum is run by users, not developers, and any statements our staff and members make are opinions of users, not developers.
Yes, this is information to help improve the wikipedia article on BitComet.

Quote

Another member at wikipedia is seeking information too, and since they have asked, I am discussing the subject with the developers, and will make an official reply when ready.
That would be great. If possible could you get one of the developers to post here, or post the information yourself so we could use your response as a possible reference for the article?

#14 The UnUsual Suspect

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 04:26 AM

I spoke to a member of the development team today "Aimee", and am making this report on their behalf. I will reserve them the right to change or edit anything that is inaccurate.

Regarding that Bit Comet was classified as "Adware" in its license, this is not correct.

Wikipedia's own adware description clearly shows Microsoft Windows M.C.E. as containing adds of a commercial nature...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adware

Yet Wikipedia's Microsoft Windows XP M.C.E. webpage doesn't classify this software as "adware".

http://en.wikipedia...._Center_Edition

These "so called" adds you refer to in Bit Comets video player are in no way commercial in nature, and are not selling any product or service.

Regarding these screenshots posted here, I was at a loss to explain them, since I have used, and continue to use Bit Comet version .70 for some time, yet never seen them. However, following your lead, I downloaded the .zip version of the program, and did infact see them. Here is our response.

Bit Comet video player did display a splash screen that gave its users the option of linking to various web pages while waiting for the video to load.

Since our users didn't like the links to download totally free products of a non commercial nature, we have removed them from our video player. This was done beginning with version .71, and older versions will remove these screens automatically when bit comet updates.

Each time Bit Comet starts, it will attempt to connect to our servers, where an updated list of top torrent sites will be downloaded. During this update, these screens will be removed. This will require that Bit Comet has access, both out going, and incoming through your firewall in order to function, as well as selecting "preferences" "advanced" "check for updates on startup".

Sincerely,

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#15 aimee

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 07:23 AM

Hi, Dr. WTF! Actually, seldom can poeple see the splash screen. We removed it months ago. But after your installation, it takes 24-48 hours for the clients to connect to the servers for the updates. During this period, you may see the splash screen before your client updated successfully.
Our purpose of displaying this screen to users is that we want them to see some other interesting things instead of watching the black screen while the media file is loading. According to your post, we are planning to improve this function and give users the options. They can select to see the introduction of some other things or just watch the black screen. But please give us some more time to implement it into the software.

#16 Dr. WTF

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 05:46 AM

The UnUsual Suspect said:

Regarding that Bit Comet was classified as "Adware" in its license, this is not correct.

Wikipedia's own adware description clearly shows Microsoft Windows M.C.E. as containing adds of a commercial nature...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adware

Yet Wikipedia's Microsoft Windows XP M.C.E. webpage doesn't classify this software as "adware".

http://en.wikipedia...._Center_Edition
Please read the first article you linked to, even the first sentence will do.

wiki said:

Adware or advertising-supported software is any software package which automatically plays, displays, or downloads advertising material to a computer after the software is installed on it or while the application is being used.
The key is "which automatically plays". Windows XP MCE does not automatically play or display ads. They only appear after 3rd party software has been added (either by the user adding it theirselves or by it being added by an exploit). BitComet however does automatically display the ads without modification.

The UnUsual Suspect said:

These "so called" adds you refer to in Bit Comets video player are in no way commercial in nature, and are not selling any product or service.
Advertising doesn't have to be selling anything. Promoting a product or service/product is also advertising.

The UnUsual Suspect said:

Bit Comet video player did display a splash screen that gave its users the option of linking to various web pages while waiting for the video to load.
Please read what I have posted above. This is not a "splash screen" under any accepted use of the term:

my previous post said:

I do not see how you could justify the display of the above as a "splash screen" as it isn't a logo for the flash previewer or bitcomet at all.

The UnUsual Suspect said:

Since our users didn't like the links to download totally free products of a non commercial nature, we have removed them from our video player.
Lyricsday.com is not a product, it is a service. In addition, lyricsday.com is a commercial website which contains ads so it is definatly not a "totally free product of a non commercial nature".

The UnUsual Suspect said:

This was done beginning with version .71, and older versions will remove these screens automatically when bit comet updates.
That is great that the ads are now removed (and automatically removed from previous versions), although this does not change the fact that these versions initially did contain commercial links to commercial services (aka ads).

aimee said:

Hi, Dr. WTF! Actually, seldom can poeple see the splash screen. We removed it months ago. But after your installation, it takes 24-48 hours for the clients to connect to the servers for the updates. During this period, you may see the splash screen before your client updated successfully.
Again, I don't see why you and The UnUsual Suspect continue to use false terms to describe what is actually happening. Splash screens are logos and/or artwork of the product you are using. They are not links to unrelated commercial products, this would be what is called an ad. Again, it's great the ads are now being automatically removed but this does not change the fact that these versions initially did contain ads.

aimee said:

Our purpose of displaying this screen to users is that we want them to see some other interesting things instead of watching the black screen while the media file is loading.
That's great, if the user gave consent for the program to display the commercial "links" (ads). Perhaps when signing up for many websites you check the checkbox that typically says "Yes, I want to recieve interesting and exciting offers via email", but just because the creator of the website considers (or says) the mail is interesting or non-commercial does not change the fact that it is obvious advertisements.

aimee said:

According to your post, we are planning to improve this function and give users the options. They can select to see the introduction of some other things or just watch the black screen. But please give us some more time to implement it into the software.
Great, although just because you are working on it doesn't mean all the previous versions magically never contained ads.

#17 The UnUsual Suspect

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 07:35 PM

Bit Comets users are interested in downloading, and we provide lists of torrent sites, and other links they may find useful.

Quote

Advertising doesn't have to be selling anything. Promoting a product or service/product is also advertising.
I'm at a loss to find anyone that agrees with this. The word "Advertisement" itself is "commercial" in nature.

Many of our users rely on Bit Comet to find them downloads and such links.

Quote

Lyricsday.com is not a product, it is a service. In addition, lyricsday.com is a commercial website which contains ads so it is definatly not a "totally free product of a non commercial nature".
Most web sites are supported by adds, this doesn't make our link to their web site an ad.

Quote

That is great that the ads are now removed (and automatically removed from previous versions), although this does not change the fact that these versions initially did contain commercial links to commercial services (aka ads).
Again, I am at a loss to find anyone who agrees with you. These were links, not ads, and not commercial in nature.

Quote

I don't see why you and The UnUsual Suspect continue to use false terms to describe what is actually happening.

I have carefully considered all that you have said in our forum Dr. WTF, and it is clear to me, and all the many members who have contacted me regarding this that you have an agenda, and your purpose is not simply gathering information to improve the wikipedia article.

Your initial post here reflects this, as you did not inquire about seeking info for an article, rather claimed to be reporting a bug. You then quoted one of our users out of context to modify the description of our license on the wikipedia article. Your actions are somewhat less then straight forward and honest.


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#18 Dr. WTF

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 09:25 PM

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Bit Comets users are interested in downloading, and we provide lists of torrent sites, and other links they may find useful.
Most advertising, the creators claim it as 'interesting'/'useful'/'helpful' information. Ever hear of contextual and relevant advertising? Just because an advertisement is useful or related to the product doesn't invalidate the fact that it is indeed an advertisement. Please don't mix in the torrent lists provided with bitcomet, this is another issue. What I am specifically refering to is the advertisement for lyricsday.com

Quote

Quote

Advertising doesn't have to be selling anything. Promoting a product or service/product is also advertising.
I'm at a loss to find anyone that agrees with this. The word "Advertisement" itself is "commercial" in nature.
Promoting a service (in this case lyricsday.com) is commercial in nature. Add to the fact that lyricsday.com is also a commercial website and you have a prime example of an advertisement.

Quote

Most web sites are supported by adds, this doesn't make our link to their web site an ad.
It is a short video promoting a commercial website, that is exactly what an ad is. If an 'interesting link' to a commercial website isn't an ad, then under your definition, online advertising is non-existant, it would all just be 'interesting links'.

Quote

Quote

I don't see why you and The UnUsual Suspect continue to use false terms to describe what is actually happening.
I have carefully considered all that you have said in our forum Dr. WTF, and it is clear to me, and all the many members who have contacted me regarding this that you have an agenda, and your purpose is not simply gathering information to improve the wikipedia article.

Your initial post here reflects this, as you did not inquire about seeking info for an article, rather claimed to be reporting a bug.
You completly avoided and ignored the portion of my post you last quoted. If anyone has a real agenda it appears to be the BitComet staff (suprise, suprise!) who seem to think redefining the term 'splash screen' and 'advertising' is not pushing an agenda.

My only 'agenda', is to gather and provide non-biased and accurate information to wikipedia.

My initial post was created as a bug report, since it is a bug report. The website claims that the client contains no ads, so I assumed that this was some kind of mistake and some kind of strange bug since several versions of the client do contain ads. Once I got the initial response from bitdave, part of the Tech Staff, who said that the advertisement could be removed by removing the "C:\program files\bitcomet\fav" folder. I then looked inside and saw a folder called 'ad'. The actual advertisment for lyricsday.com is found in "c:\program files\bicomet\fav\AD". As more replies were added it has become obvious that the ad was added intentionally and not a mistake or some type of bug.

Quote

You then quoted one of our users out of context to modify the description of our license on the wikipedia article. Your actions are somewhat less then straight forward and honest.
I do not see where I quoted anyone out of context or tried to mislead anyone. The initial post can always be found right above mine. The only reason I quote people at all on forums is to make sure it is easily understanedable what I am actually responding to. I also do not see how my actions are 'somewhat less then straight forwared and honest', everything I have posted is easily verified by anyone.

#19 The UnUsual Suspect

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 10:34 PM

Dr WTF,

I used Windows XP M.C.E. as one example. You did not consider that product to contain ads, but continue to say Bit Comet does.

Quote

The key is "which automatically plays". Windows XP MCE does not automatically play or display ads. They only appear after 3rd party software has been added (either by the user adding it theirselves or by it being added by an exploit). BitComet however does automatically display the ads without modification.
Perhaps we can use another product as an example. How about MSN Messenger? will this suit you better?

According to Wikipedia, this software is licensed as "freeware"

http://en.wikipedia....i/Msn_messenger

Any rational person that has used this has seen a great deal of ads incorporated into it.

The new version of MSN Messenger "Windows Live Messenger" has even more ads...

http://en.wikipedia...._Live_Messenger

And is also listed as "freeware" in Wikipedia.

I could site examples of "freeware" licensed programs that contain ads to no end. Any reasonable person would also consider the ads in MSN Messenger as being commercial in nature too.

Quote

Promoting a service (in this case lyricsday.com) is commercial in nature. Add to the fact that lyricsday.com is also a commercial website and you have a prime example of an advertisement.

You also seem to insist that "lyricsday.com" is a commercial website.

http://lyricsday.com/

I just went to this website, and looked up the lyrics to several songs, and all were displayed for me free of any cost or obligation of any kind.

I'm not going to debate the merits of your claim that this web site is commercial or not, but I will debate that providing our users a link to this web site is NOT the same as a commercial advertisement.

In fact, I quite like this website, and have bookmarked it. I think it was a good idea to provide this link for our users.
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#20 Dr. WTF

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 11:01 PM

Quote

Dr WTF,

I used Windows XP M.C.E. as one example. You did not consider that product to contain ads, but continue to say Bit Comet does.

Quote

The key is "which automatically plays". Windows XP MCE does not automatically play or display ads. They only appear after 3rd party software has been added (either by the user adding it theirselves or by it being added by an exploit). BitComet however does automatically display the ads without modification.
Perhaps we can use another product as an example. How about MSN Messenger? will this suit you better?

According to Wikipedia, this software is licensed as "freeware"

http://en.wikipedia....i/Msn_messenger

Any rational person that has used this has seen a great deal of ads incorporated into it.

The new version of MSN Messenger "Windows Live Messenger" has even more ads...

http://en.wikipedia...._Live_Messenger

And is also listed as "freeware" in Wikipedia.

I could site examples of "freeware" licensed programs that contain ads to no end. Any reasonable person would also consider the ads in MSN Messenger as being commercial in nature too.
I have not used any version of MSN messenger, so can not comment on if it should or should not be considereed as being liscensed as freeware or adware. But if it does contain ads as you said it does then it probably should be considered adware.

Although, adware and freeware (as in terms for the license) are not mutually exclusive. Many adware programs can also be considered freeware programs. At this point I'm not really consered as much as what the license says on the article, so freeware is acceptable now in my eyes since freeware can technically contain ads. This is because (1) the ad is now automatically removed from previous versions and (2) nothing since 0.70 contains the ad we are discussing.

Quote

You also seem to insist that "lyricsday.com" is a commercial website.

http://lyricsday.com/

I just went to this website, and looked up the lyrics to several songs, and all were displayed for me free of any cost or obligation of any kind.
As with the majority of sites on the web. Do you consider Google a commercial website? It is and is also free to use without any cost or obligation. What makes it a commercial website is that it contains ads, so does lyricsday.com (infact I saw google adwords on it, so defintaly advertisements).

Quote

I'm not going to debate the merits of your claim that this web site is commercial or not, but I will debate that providing our users a link to this web site is NOT the same as a commercial advertisement.

In fact, I quite like this website, and have bookmarked it. I think it was a good idea to provide this link for our users.
I have never claimed that this site is a commercial website. What I do claim is that the flash video for lyricsday.com is an advertisement. While the bitcomet team or any of its creators may not profit off of the ad, the creators of the 3rd party flash player that was included in bitcomet did.

Again, I am not trying to push an agenda. Please look at the current revision (as of this writing) and you can see that the issue is covered quite neutrally and accuratly: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=103469788